Bob,

I like the rifle a lot but in the end isn't accuracy more important than all those accessories?

say a savage 10 could out shoot the Ruger, wouldn't the Savage be the better choice for long range work?

would be if it came with all the same options for the same price........But alas that would not be the case here.......I own a Savage model 10 in .223. I had to put a stock and bed it, put a target trigger on it, a 20 moa rail......Now I have better than a 1000.00 in it, but it does shoot 1/2 MOA.....And I don't have a fully adjustable chassis. Nor magazine feed...

that doesn't really answer my question.;)

I fully agree for that style of bolt action rifle the Ruger is a major win. definitely cheaper than taking a stock bolt action and adding that kind of stock, rail, and detachable mag and all the other little things.

what i'm saying is you don't need all that stuff to shoot at long range (Carlos Hathcock sure didn't) if you took a stock heavy barrled Savage model 10 or Remington 700 did no mods to it and it could out shoot the Ruger then wouldn't it be the better choice?

to me the answer would be yes!

saying it would take $1500 + the cost of the rifle to bring a Rem 700 to this level only really counts if you want all the extras.

I disagree that Carlos didn't need that. I actually worked with him at Quantico. I was a PMI there. His original sniper rifle would have cost over 2500.00 in today bucks. He bought a Winchester model 70 that was completely reworked by the armorers in RVN. Barrel, trigger, bedded stock..........The works.

A standard Savage model 10 will not outshoot this gun...They are claiming 1/2 to 3/4 MOA out of the Ruger out of the box....I have yet to see a stock Savage even the high end ones like the 110 BA do under 3/4 MOA.

I would agree, if you could buy something cheaper that shot better and you liked the way it was decked out. It would be a buy. I can tell you, i have about 8 rifles that shoot under 3/4 MOA but none of them could I replace for 1000.00

Bob,

cool that you got to meet and work with Carlos! I wasn't saying that he didn't need a tuned Rifle, I was simply stating that he didn't need a detachable mag, tactical stock and all those other newer things to shoot at long range.


Maybe not every out of the box Savage will get 1/2MOA but I've read a lot of user reviews over the years stating outstanding accuracy. heck I've even seen lots of threads about the Savage Axis putting 5 shots under a dime.


because of technology Rifle makers today more and more turn out a consistently accurate firearm but if you take ten Savage model 10's and shoot them one after the other they won't all shoot the same. some will be better and others worse. saying "A standard Savage model 10 will not outshoot this gun" is a bold statement don't you think? you'd have to shoot every single rifle ever made to know that.

not trying to Piss you off or start a fight. you certainly know more about long range shooting than I do. I just find it hard to believe you need all the extras to shoot accurately at long range. I guess my 222rem, 22-250 and 25-06 that shoot under 1/2MOA (all sporter's under $600) have spoiled me.:)

I don't evah get pissed anymore......I get it. The whole point of this was to inform folks of a new tactical rifle with all the stuff that are options on other rifles at this price point. It is an apples to apples comparison........If you have 3 sporter rifles that shoot under 1/2 MOA you are either the luckiest guy in the world or someone that sold them to you love you.
I can tell you that out of a 100 off the shelf guns less than 5 will shoot under 1 moa that cost under 600.00.

Need is a relevant affair. I don't need a bull barrel to shoot 1000 yards.....Unless I shoo t more than 10 rounds then I do. I don't need a gun to shoot under 1 moa unless the target is under a moa...............

If you find a gun under a 1000.00 that shoots under .75 moa you have a steal.

Bob,

I've always been lucky and my Dad (a Marine) had great taste in Rifles and left my brother and I some good ones.:)

I understand what you were trying to do and the fact is before you posted your thread I was going to post that Gunblast video about the rifle. you beat me to the draw lol.

it just seemed like y'all were saying you need all that stuff to make long range hits. while every advantage you can get is helpful I didn't think it was necessary.

for that style of rifle i'd say it's a winner!

You have to understand also that this type of rifle (precision LR) is built to shoot under a moa all day long. You can deffinatelly hit LR with a sub $500 but, will it do it after the barrel heats up shooting lots of rounds down range. ...is the question. My 700 5R with an HR Precision stock shot 3/4 minutes if I did my part throughout the 50 or 60 rounds shot without a long cool off period. Will a out of the box Savage Axis or Ruger American do that? Idk, I don't own those rifles but I would think not. Now, a model 10 heavy barrel might but, that's not a sub $500 rifle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still new to LR shooting. :D

yes a heavy barrel is better when shooting lots of rounds. it also adds more over all weight which means less movement and recoil which helps with accuracy. the Savage 10 and Remington 700 both come with heavy barrels for $823 or less.

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when I was talking about the model 10 and 700 those were the versions I was speaking about. I only mentioned the Savage Axis to show that you don't need to drop lots of cash for accuracy. there's always a better tool for the job and the heavy barreled rifles are much better for lots of long distance shooting.