FBI 9mm Justification.

[GD2A]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

that was a fun read...favorite line is:
LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident

this is all true true...can attest first hand of this. Its really sad though.

I'd be curious to see a comparison between LEO's, trained/competitive civilians and military personal regarding accuracy with a handgun. Though military relies primarily on long guns I'd *think* they'd have the highest hit percentages but I'd really like to see the tale of the tape.

[sdmc530]

you know I think that the trained competitive person would have the hands up. They practice a lot and shoot a lot. Military doesn't emphasis (i don't think) on pistols so I bet they would be a close second.

[Gatorade]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

you know I think that the trained competitive person would have the hands up. They practice a lot and shoot a lot. Military doesn't emphasis (i don't think) on pistols so I bet they would be a close second.

I second this. Military used fire to supress an enemy as well. Also remember military and LEO usually carry a lot of mags. More mags equal more rounds, more rounds usually means more shots taken. I carry 11 in the gun and 10 in the spare mag. LEO probably have 60+ so no need to leave it on the field so to say.

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by sdmc530

you know I think that the trained competitive person would have the hands up. They practice a lot and shoot a lot. Military doesn't emphasis (i don't think) on pistols so I bet they would be a close second.

Wait for Brownie to chime in on this one.....He teaches pistol skills to keep you alive, with emphasis on hitting your target. To me the key is practice, more practice, and then practice alot more. But with the right skills.

[BlackKnight]

Originally Posted by milkmanjoe

Wait for Brownie to chime in on this one.....He teaches pistol skills to keep you alive, with emphasis on hitting your target. To me the key is practice, more practice, and then practice alot more. But with the right skills.

Absolutely! Just the other day I was experimenting with a drill someone taught me. At seven to 10 yards I was bouncing a golf ball to about my own head height, drawing and putting two rounds accurately on target before the ball hit the ground again. This was done from a relaxed position. In other words without my hand on the weapon. I then timed the ball. It came to about 1.3 seconds. It was a pretty cool and fun drill.

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

Absolutely! Just the other day I was experimenting with a drill someone taught me. At seven to 10 yards I was bouncing a golf ball to about my own head height, drawing and putting two rounds accurately on target before the ball hit the ground again. This was done from a relaxed position. In other words without my hand on the weapon. I then timed the ball. It came to about 1.3 seconds. It was a pretty cool and fun drill.

That drill sounds like alot of fun, a good way to practice without boredom setting in. Well, boredom for some people...if I'm shootin' I'm happy.

[brownie]

Good to see you up and running this morning Joe, sorry we missed each other on the call and hope the boys practice went well.

Competitors learn to run the gun very efficiently in competition [ C ]. Yet they draw to eye level for every shot, and as you know, that's not the most efficient way to skin the cat under 12 feet when you're behind the curve, there are other more efficient/effective skills that can be employed.

There's learning to shoot and hit and manipulate the weapon and then there's learning how to stay alive with a weapon. Skills that could be employed, and should be employed are not employed in the games.

Put the average competitor [ only shooting in matches ] in a fof scenario, what they do in C isn't what you'll see them use in the field. That's a HUGE difference, and one that people who recognize it will seek others who can impart the skills of staying alive. That involves not just the shooting portion but the tactics portion.

I always laughed at how one could get a walk through of the course of fire before shooting it in C. There's no such thing in the real world, just another example of the disparity between the street training and the C's

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by brownie

Good to see you up and running this morning Joe, sorry we missed each other on the call and hope the boys practice went well.

Competitors learn to run the gun very efficiently in competition [ C ]. Yet they draw to eye level for every shot, and as you know, that's not the most efficient way to skin the cat under 12 feet when you're behind the curve, there are other more efficient/effective skills that can be employed.

There's learning to shoot and hit and manipulate the weapon and then there's learning how to stay alive with a weapon. Skills that could be employed, and should be employed are not employed in the games.

Put the average competitor [ only shooting in matches ] in a fof scenario, what they do in C isn't what you'll see them use in the field. That's a HUGE difference, and one that people who recognize it will seek others who can impart the skills of staying alive. That involves not just the shooting portion but the tactics portion.

I always laughed at how one could get a walk through of the course of fire before shooting it in C. There's no such thing in the real world, just another example of the disparity between the street training and the C's

yup...."up and running".....more like walking slow and aching....LOL

I consider myself lucky, never got into the shooting games. I get it how they could be fun, test the nerves in their own capacity, maybe make new friends. Excitement oozes from what I read. Just not for me. For a decade I have been shooting with a DI up in SC, and the last few years with you, and with Bob. Your methods of deploying a pistol on target, with speed, are fairly easily learned. It is the practice after learning that people must keep up on. Since our last class I have put minimum 20k rounds on steel practicing. The zipper is damn near instinct. I catch myself sometimes with a round or two in the ground before hitting steel. But I could babble on, people need to experience your class to get it.

[brownie]

Appreciate the kind words Joe, stay well, see you in about 6 weeks now. Looking forward to it, just two range officers this go round, everyone else has bailed except xbluelight [ rick ]

[milkmanjoe]

Originally Posted by brownie

Appreciate the kind words Joe, stay well, see you in about 6 weeks now. Looking forward to it, just two range officers this go round, everyone else has bailed except xbluelight [ rick ]

No sweat....I can RO for ya too...I keep my certs silent...till today