...man killed by NJ police

[pitor]

Originally Posted by Xbonz

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/22...ntcmp=trending

When a cop tells you not to move it's probably wise to listen to him/her. This individual apparently thought otherwise...

Yes of course you should always listen to the police, no argument there. But it seems Reid decided to do something he thought was in everyone's best interest, getting out and getting on the ground. To get shot like he did for that... very gray area in my opinion.

Going to be interesting to see this thing develop. With the way things are right now and the climate around police officers actions were every little thing is scrutinized ad nauseum, I would not be surprised to see this officer be put through the wringer.

[skosh69]

Originally Posted by pitor

Yes of course you should always listen to the police, no argument there. But it seems Reid decided to do something he thought was in everyone's best interest, getting out and getting on the ground. To get shot like he did for that... very gray area in my opinion.

Going to be interesting to see this thing develop. With the way things are right now and the climate around police officers actions were every little thing is scrutinized ad nauseum, I would not be surprised to see this officer be put through the wringer.

This^^^^

[Gatorade]

I am a little disappointed with Fox news because they cut the video to show the shooting before the non-compliance of the BG. Show it as it developed and the context or you only get an editors view of a situation.

Guy you know has at least one gun nearby decides to push the passenger door open despite being told not to move. His hands were still close to his body unlike the driver who had both arms out the window and had one arm restrained at least once by the officer. Seems like the passenger thought he was in control of the situation and was going to dictate where and how he would act. Not smart with a gun pointed at you.

[Xbonz]

Originally Posted by pitor

Yes of course you should always listen to the police, no argument there. But it seems Reid decided to do something he thought was in everyone's best interest, getting out and getting on the ground. To get shot like he did for that... very gray area in my opinion.

Next time Brownie comes to town for training attend his class. (I choose Brownie here because I know his abilities) Ask him to play the role of a BG. Stand in front of him, while holding a blue gun, at an open car door and demand he not move. Have him exit the vehicle, against your orders, while raising his hands as happened in this scenario. See what happens next....

[pitor]

Originally Posted by Xbonz

Next time Brownie comes to town for training attend his class. (I choose Brownie here because I know his abilities) Ask him to play the role of a BG. Stand in front of him, while holding a blue gun, at an open car door and demand he not move. Have him exit the vehicle, against your orders, while raising his hands as happened in this scenario. See what happens next....

I understand where you're going with this Howard and you're right about hands, but Days could've stepped back with no problem and give Reid one last chance while watching him get on the ground. Let me state this clearly, I AGREE WITH EVERYONE HERE, IT WAS A POOR DECISION TO GET OUT OF THE CAR, BUT REID STATED HIS INTENTIONS VERY CLEARLY, REPEATEDLY. I con only imagine how hard the profession has turned out to be with the climate around LEOs as of lately, hence why he should've afforded Reid a chance to deliver on his promise to get on the ground. Worley had Days covered as he was behind Reid.

I know you can snatch someone's gun from up to 6' away, I've trained with Brownie both H2H and Quick Kill. Still gray area for a police officer IMO. Reid clearly stated his intentions over and over, clearly in an effort to de-escalate and do what HE THOUGHT (wrong IMO) was safest for everyone involved. I still don't quite understand why Worley, the white cop covering the driver side, had to shoot Reid in the back as it almost looked as knee-jerk reaction. Worley may be in more trouble than Days (black cop who shot Reid 6 times).

We'll see how all this plays out. I would be very nervous about this if I was Days or Worley, just sayin'...

[Xbonz]

Yes, the officer could have stepped back and by doing so given up control of the situation. The LEO must be in charge and the suspect must comply for things to work with a limited chance of failure. Could the LEO have handled things better? I have no doubt, but I'm not a cop. I have never been in that type of situation and have no idea what to expect or how I would react. So, I won't second guess, yet.

[Gatorade]

Originally Posted by pitor

We'll see how all this plays out. I would be very nervous about this if I was Days or Worley, just sayin'...

I am just guessing but I can only assume they are much happier seeing how this plays out than being the guest of honor at their funeral. Split second decisions are made and there is a cop in Arizona who probably wishes he acted faster with a BG. Oh wait I guess he isn't thinking that. He isn't thinking that because he is dead.

[pitor]

Originally Posted by Xbonz

Yes, the officer could have stepped back and by doing so given up control of the situation. The LEO must be in charge and the suspect must comply for things to work with a limited chance of failure. Could the LEO have handled things better? I have no doubt, but I'm not a cop. I have never been in that type of situation and have no idea what to expect or how I would react. So, I won't second guess, yet.

Originally Posted by Gatorade

I am just guessing but I can only assume they are much happier seeing how this plays out than being the guest of honor at their funeral. Split second decisions are made and there is a cop in Arizona who probably wishes he acted faster with a BG. Oh wait I guess he isn't thinking that. He isn't thinking that because he is dead.

Bonz you're right and I will do the same and stop second guessing myself. I get your point Gatorade and agree on split second decisions. I would not want to be in any of those shoes. I'll just wait to see how it plays out and I'm always thankful those two officers are still alive. Reid did have a very extensive rap sheet and had done 15 yrs in jail for shooting people in the past.

[pitor]

Originally Posted by Xbonz

Next time Brownie comes to town for training attend his class. (I choose Brownie here because I know his abilities) Ask him to play the role of a BG. Stand in front of him, while holding a blue gun, at an open car door and demand he not move. Have him exit the vehicle, against your orders, while raising his hands as happened in this scenario. See what happens next....

I understand where you're going with this Howard and you're right about hands, but Days could've stepped back with no problem and give Reid one last chance while watching him get on the ground. Let me state this clearly, I AGREE WITH EVERYONE HERE, IT WAS A POOR DECISION TO GET OUT OF THE CAR, BUT REID STATED HIS INTENTIONS VERY CLEARLY, REPEATEDLY. I can only imagine how hard the profession has turned out to be with the climate around LEOs as of lately, hence why he should've afforded Reid a chance to deliver on his promise to get on the ground. Worley had Days covered as he was behind Reid.

I know you can snatch someone's gun from up to 6' away, I've trained with Brownie both H2H and Quick Kill. Still gray area for a police officer IMO. Reid clearly stated his intentions over and over, clearly in an effort to de-escalate and do what HE THOUGHT (wrong IMO) was safest for everyone involved. I still don't quite understand why Worley, the white cop covering the driver side, had to shoot Reid in the back as it almost looked as knee-jerk reaction. Worley may be in more trouble than Days (black cop who shot Reid 6 times).

We'll see how all this plays out. I would be very nervous about this if I was Days or Worley, just sayin'...