U.S.M.C. no longer teaching the fundamentals?

bttbbob · #1 03-03-2015, 03:57 PM

I was speaking with a Marine PMI from Parris Island at my Marine Corps League meeting. Marines have not trained with open sights since 2011. I was floored. There are units being sent to Afghanistan that aren't even issued BUIS........They are killing us.

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com/...rifle-training

BlackKnight · #2 03-03-2015, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bttbbob

I was speaking with a Marine PMI from Parris Island at my Marine Corps League meeting. Marines have not trained with open sights since 2011. I was floored. There are units being sent to Afghanistan that aren't even issued BUIS........They are killing us.

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com/...rifle-training

Greaaat...
So that begs the question, what happens if the scope fails?

bttbbob · #3 03-03-2015, 04:47 PM

Or if you have a damaged rifle and have to pick up an enemy combatants rifle.

milkmanjoe · #4 03-03-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bttbbob

I was speaking with a Marine PMI from Parris Island at my Marine Corps League meeting. Marines have not trained with open sights since 2011. I was floored. There are units being sent to Afghanistan that aren't even issued BUIS........They are killing us.

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com/...rifle-training

That explains why the young men didn't have a clue about irons. Still, I wonder what the training will be for Marines who are, say, jet engine mechanics vs a Marine who might actually utilize a weapon. I suspect I will hear that all Marines train alike and have the same skills. Come to my SC house for next Thanksgiving's Marine Appreciation Day, they are not all alike. I have said it before, I have Marine friends in their 30's who left the Corps, calling it pussified. Things have changed rapidly and I doubt those in charge are willing to talk about it.

BlackKnight · #5 03-03-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkmanjoe

That explains why the young men didn't have a clue about irons. Still, I wonder what the training will be for Marines who are, say, jet engine mechanics vs a Marine who might actually utilize a weapon. I suspect I will hear that all Marines train alike and have the same skills. Come to my SC house for next Thanksgiving's Marine Appreciation Day, they are not all alike. I have said it before, I have Marine friends in their 30's who left the Corps, calling it pussified. Things have changed rapidly and I doubt those in charge are willing to talk about it.

The military, fortunately and unfortunately, changes with the times. They become a reflection of that particular generation. I'm seeing the same thing in law enforcement.
Scary to think that I've become that guy. You know, the old crusty SOB.

milkmanjoe · #6 03-03-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackKnight

The military, fortunately and unfortunately, changes with the times. They become a reflection of that particular generation. I'm seeing the same thing in law enforcement.
Scary to think that I've become that guy. You know, the old crusty SOB.

I agree with timely change, but I suspect the last few years of changes have been less than timely and more political/ideological. I know quite a few Marines in their fifties, sixties, even a few in their eighties. The stories they tell me don't resemble what I see today. So, "old", or " crusty " to me translate into experienced in reality on the job.

BlackKnight · #7 03-03-2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkmanjoe

I agree with timely change, but I suspect the last few years of changes have been less than timely and more political/ideological. I know quite a few Marines in their fifties, sixties, even a few in their eighties. The stories they tell me don't resemble what I see today. So, "old", or " crusty " to me translate into experienced in reality on the job.

I agree. Why the "unfortunate" part of my post.

Snipersnest · #8 03-04-2015, 10:46 AM

I remember "snapping in" for a week without firing a round at the range. We qualified out to 900 meters with iron sights. The Marine Corps was always based on marksmanship and the tenet that every man is a basic infantryman from the Commandant right down to the lowliest private. Chesty must be rolling in his grave!

pony up · #9 03-04-2015, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snipersnest

I remember "snapping in" for a week without firing a round at the range. We qualified out to 900 meters with iron sights. The Marine Corps was always based on marksmanship and the tenet that every man is a basic infantryman from the Commandant right down to the lowliest private. Chesty must be rolling in his grave!

Absolutely. I remember my DI sitting on my shoulders to get me into a proper sitting position. I left the range with a black and blue right thumb,

a black and blue right cheek bone, a very sore shoulder, an expert rifleman qualification and extra swagger on the grinder. I had been positive before but the hell, yes, I can do this really kicked in at the range. I am sure that todays new Marines in training have the same feelings we had then and will shake their heads at training regimen down the road. I am a lot more concerned that we seem to have developed the art of getting a whole slew of good young men and women killed to no good end. It is not the troops, they are as good as ever. It is gutless weasel politicians who waste those brave men and women and an electorate chock full of useful idiots who vote those weasels into office over and over.